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Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

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Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #1 by Henkenator68NL » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:26 pm

Hey Guys,

Since I have lately been do a lot of benching on my dram to gain more and more efficiency. I realized how big the difference.between stock/xmp settings vs completely manual tweaked Dram, are.


What works and what doen't , So I thought It might be fun to share your (best/current) memory efficiency score .

First I looked. At some easy tools that quickly gain access to the.current dram settings and also measure / see improvement as fast and easy as possible. I used several Tools:
1. Asus MemtweakIt: this gives an immediately overview off primary, secondary, tertiary and some times also rtl and iol (round-trip latency and I latency) and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
on top of the subsequent timings, MemtweakIt also calculates an efficiency score. It not completely clear how this value is calculated, but it certainly give a general idea of how your changed settings alter the outcome.
2. AIDA64, a great tool with man many options and tools -they have 30 day free trial version: The latest Stable version is that what we are going to use: Version: 5.20.3400 stable (Mar 24, 2015) Download: here
But I recommend you to buying a licence this will certainly be worth while
3. In AIDA64 under Tools, select and run Aida CacheMem test. This takes a few seconds (depending on sysyem/platform).
4. Please enclose on the same screenshot, Your MemTweakIt Score (or any others brands similar program showing timings and sub timings) and also CPU-Z main tab and CPU-Z memory tab (SPD tab would also be appreciated same goed for the mainboard tab)

It returns read, write and copy speed and also a latency number (in nanoseconds).
This is what the AIDA64 CacheMem Tool saved File looks like:
Image

Please specify:
CPU:
MOTHERBOARD
DRAM TYPE : DDR, DDR, DDR3, DD4
DRAM manufacturer
Dram IC used: if unknown, state unknown
Dram Size Total
number of modules
XMP profile

Here is mine to start of:
CPU: i7 4798K, Mobo: Z97 Maximus VII Impact.
Dram: GSkill Trident X F3-2800C11-GTXD, dual kit= 2 x 4gb DDR3, xmp:2800,11,14,14,31,2T
Overclocked (down clocked in this case) 2666 cl9-12-11-26-1T . CPU @4800 , Cache 4000MHz
AIDA64: Read 41083 MB/s - Write 41840 MB/s - Copy 39682 MB/s, Latency: 36,9ns
Image

Also A Maxxmem2 screenshot is good indicator:
4790K@5100MHz, Cache@4800,vDimm@1,925, Maxxmem2 reed speed: 28526. MaxxMem2 marks: 2455,4
Image
So put Up your current or best
Last edited by Henkenator68NL on Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:36 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #2 by ObscureParadox » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:09 am

The photos aren't working but I like the idea of this thread by the way, I'll post the settings from my 24/7 rig since I was going to have a play with them soon anyway.

AIDA version used to give different results depending on the version used so may I suggest we all use 5.20?


i7 4930K @ 4.4GHz
Rampage Extreme IV X79
G.Skill Trident 2400C10 (Hynix CFR) DDR3 4 x 4GB @1.65v

Stock XMP Run scores :

Mem tweakit : 43586

AIDA : Read = 57522 Latency = 58.4ns

Quick overclock 2400 9-11-11-28 1T no extra timings played with yet @1.8v

Mem tweakit : 47280

AIDA : Read = 59930 Latency = 54.2ns
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #3 by Henkenator68NL » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:51 am

ObscureParadox wrote:The photos aren't working but I like the idea of this thread by the way, I'll post the settings from my 24/7 rig since I was going to have a play with them soon anyway.

AIDA version used to give different results depending on the version used so may I suggest we Use 2.0
great !
I fixed the photos!
I will have a look at AIDa64 version to use.
The latest Stable version is that what we are going to use: Version: 5.20.3400 stable (Mar 24, 2015)
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #4 by Hivizman » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:06 am

Bloody hell this is a outstanding post henk.

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #5 by Arne Saknussemm » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:16 am

CPU: 5960X
MOTHERBOARD: Rampage V Extreme
DRAM TYPE : DDR4
DRAM manufacturer: G.Skill
Dram IC used: Hynix
Dram Size Total: 16384MB
number of modules: 4
XMP profile: 3000Mhz 15-15-15-35-2T

► Show Spoiler


Very important to OC CPU cache
Last edited by Arne Saknussemm on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #6 by Arne Saknussemm » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:14 am

CPU: 5960X
MOTHERBOARD: Rampage V Extreme
DRAM TYPE : DDR4
DRAM manufacturer: G.Skill
Dram IC used: Hynix
Dram Size Total: 16384MB
number of modules: 4
XMP profile: 3000Mhz 15-15-15-35-2T

OK so 3 hours later and lots of timing tweaks...

► Show Spoiler


There are differences in runs of AIDA64 so it is difficult to tell from one run if a timing change has made a difference...

Have to make a few runs and average stuff to see if something has made a tangible difference to squeeze out the last drops of performance

I think this is genuinely a couple of hundred points more...getting some read runs 81700 etc.

Menthol if you are interested...3200MHz 14-15-15-15-1T / 4-6-260-8320-9-4-16-3-8-6-14 / 0-0-2-2-2-1-1-0-0-0-5-5-4-1-0-2
Last edited by Arne Saknussemm on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #7 by Menthol » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:54 pm

Henk,
Thanks very much for always sharing your hard work with us, it is always helpful and greatly appreciated
Arne,
Yes I am very much interested, I have been using the timings you posted for me before and they worked great, tighter timings just as stable, you have made it easy for me, is that your new CPU, or the old dog?
Don't get rid of those dram modules, since I haven't been benching GPU's for awhile but still can't resist new hardware I purchased a kit of GSkill 3200 cl15 modules, hoping that maybe they were better binned but compared to the 3000 cl15 kit they seem finicky, although they will run at XMP settings my 3000mhz kit can run tighter timings and seem more stable. My guess is possibly the early 3000 cl15 kits may be better, of course it could just be my samples or my CPU's IMC. I do like the packaging they came in, the fans that can't be used if you have a GPU in the first slot, oh and why in the hell do the fans have a 4pin molex connector, even if you wanted to use the fans a 4pin molex cable to each fan is not pretty

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #8 by Arne Saknussemm » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:28 pm

It is the old dog...the new dog is going back because it has an IMC made of cream cheese! The search continues...

But yes, this RAM is good stuff...can perform or outperform 3200 kits at much lower cost....must have been a batch of good chips...

The fans on those kits have had a good slating in a few reviews....someone at g.skill not paying attention to detail :roll:

Henk as ever...hard at work tweaking... :D

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #9 by Henkenator68NL » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:22 pm

Hivizman wrote:Bloody hell this is a outstanding post henk.

Sticky

Menthol wrote:Henk,
Thanks very much for always sharing your hard work with us, it is always helpful and greatly appreciated


Hehey thanks Dagmar and Menthol!
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #10 by Henkenator68NL » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:44 pm

I just came accross this Asrock tool (similar to Asus Memtweakit) which also works on other systems apparently:
Its Called Asrock Timings Configurator
I have placed it in my dropbox and can be downloaded with this link:
Asrock Timing Configurator

This produces this information:
Image

Obviously its not flawless (tWR ...??) but it gives nice and fast access to important timing settings
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #11 by ObscureParadox » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:28 pm

Twr seems legit enough XD

Can I also suggest that if people are going to do this then keep cache and core at the same speed to show ram improvements instead of CPU improvements. Maxmemm for example scales with CPU speed just as much as it does with Ram speed from my testing. Obviously something like 52x100 is the same as 50x104 to help get a few extra meg from the ram but keeping CPU speeds the same.

Had a go at my ram last night and got very close to 50K memtweakit score and over 60GB/s reads on AIDA. That was with about 30mins of play before sleep.

Arne have you tried bumping the SA volts and using 125MHz strap at all?
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #12 by Arne Saknussemm » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:51 pm

For comparison....same CPU OC XMP timings and 41 cache

► Show Spoiler


ObPx, yes, like I commented in other thread... I tried that and it worked a bit but getting on for 1.2v VCCSA and still would not do 3200...just 00 qcode directly...makes me think the IMC was this kind of wafer

► Show Spoiler


not this kind

► Show Spoiler
Last edited by Arne Saknussemm on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #13 by nickolp1974 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:11 pm

was all set to contribute to this with some 1st time extreme cold on the mems and the mrs wants me with her, oh well all prepared for next time and gonna watch the last 2 vikings instead.

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #14 by Henkenator68NL » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:16 pm

ObscureParadox wrote:Twr seems legit enough XD

Can I also suggest that if people are going to do this then keep cache and core at the same speed to show ram improvements instead of CPU improvements. Maxmemm for example scales with CPU speed just as much as it does with Ram speed from my testing. Obviously something like 52x100 is the same as 50x104 to help get a few extra meg from the ram but keeping CPU speeds the same.

Had a go at my ram last night and got very close to 50K memtweakit score and over 60GB/s reads on AIDA.

Fully agree only way to see the effect off changes in Timings is to keep all other stuff exactly the same.
So guys pick a fixed cpu/cache speed and test with that. I'll try to draw up a spreadsheet and put data I there I hope that I can embed the sheet in the first post.
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #15 by Arne Saknussemm » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:02 am

Well, in the interests of the scientific method OK, I'll post same CPU/cache...

4.4 CPU 4.2 cache stock XMP profile

► Show Spoiler


But, as I said, it is cache OC that is important for read/write/copy score...CPU mostly irrelevant
► Show Spoiler
Last edited by Arne Saknussemm on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #16 by Henkenator68NL » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:24 am

Arne Saknussemm wrote:Well, in the interests of the scientific method OK, I'll post same CPU/cache...

4.4 CPU 4.2 cache stock XMP profile
But, as I said, it is cache OC that is important for read/write/copy score...CPU mostly irrelevant
4.4CPU 3.8 cache you can see dropping 400MHz cache really cuts scores
3.8CPU 3.8cache dropping 600MHz CPU does nothing..the differences in read/write/copy are the normal differences between runs


Nice one Arne !! This shows some very important scaling factors indeed. So cpu speed in itself does not raise the memory efficiency for your platform and probably all which have a Cache/Ring speed that can be separately set.
For earlier platforms which do not have the ring speed its a different story I suspect.
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #17 by Arne Saknussemm » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:06 am

Yes absolutely...X99 results... I suspect too, as you say, if you have separate cache/uncore this will be similar....other stuff where it scales with CPU automatically....

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #18 by Henkenator68NL » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:07 pm

Alright I just about finished a first optimization round on my Rampage IV Extreme Black Edition
CPU: 4930 K
DRAM: Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD16GX3MA2133C9
Amount: 4 x 4GB
IC: Samsung
XMP: 2133C9-11-10-30-2T @ 1.5Volt

First run I did was with CPU @ 4400, DRAM @ XMP 2133 C9-11-10-30-2T
The stock run got these scores:
MemTweakIt: 40611
AIDA64 Read: 61075 MB/s Write: 60722 MB/s Copy: 58723 MB/s Latency: 54.7 ns
Image

I did this as a baseline result. Not completely honest because the rest of the tweaking was done by setting the CPU strap to 167MHz -> the CPU speed is than 100MHz x 1.67 x 27 = 4500 (approx). Dram Multiplier also changed due to the strap so the most similar cpu speed is than 2200MHz.

This had a considerable positive influence on the efficiency!
MemTweakIt: 46290
AIDA64 Read: 64217 MB/s Write: 64676 MB/s Copy: 61987 MB/s Latency: 51.7 ns

I did up the voltages a bit: Vdimm @ 1.700 Volt, VTT @ 1.176 Volt and the VCCSA @ 1.200 Volt this stabilized the dram tightening/overclocking
► Show Spoiler


Than I started to bring down the first timings without adding (maybe here and there a tiny bit) Voltages.
Dram @ 2200 MHz Timings set to: CL: 9, tRCD: 10, tRP: 10, tRAS: 24, CR: 1T

I set these Tertiary timings: fixed tRRDR (0), tRRDD(2),tWWDR(3),tWWDD(3),tRWDR(2), tRWDD(2) + raised Vdimm
Now the efficiency is starting to raise !
MemTweakIt: 46646
AIDA64 Read: 64189MB/s Write: 65386MB/s Copy: 62212MB/s Latency: 51.5 ns
► Show Spoiler


Even a bit more thight
► Show Spoiler


Now I locked in the Secondary Timings (Copied from Auto): 7-160-7936-15-8-27-8-6-8 and started to lower them to:
6-96-7936-12-6-16-6-6-6
MemTweakIt: 46979
AIDA64 Read: 64687MB/s Write: 65118MB/s Copy: 61951MB/s Latency: 49.8 ns
► Show Spoiler


And for now I am quite happy with this result:

MemTweakIt: 47005
AIDA64 Read: 65326 MB/s Write: 65536 MB/s Copy: 62251 MB/s Latency: 50.7 ns
Image

MemTweakIt score raised from 40611 to 47005
AIDA64 Read: raised from 61075 to 65326 MB/s
Write: raised from 60772 to 65536 MB/s
Copy: 58723 to 62251 MB/s
Latency: lowered from 54.7 to 50.7 ns
:D
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #19 by Jam0r » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:19 pm

Mine

Image

XMP profile but tweaked some of the timings with some help from 8Pack. This whole memory timings thing is a complete minefield.

If I wanted to try and improve this where should I go from there? Lower the speed to 2200 and see if I can tighten up any further or just stay at 2400 and tighten from there?
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #20 by Henkenator68NL » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:58 pm

Jam0r wrote:If I wanted to try and improve this where should I go from there? Lower the speed to 2200 and see if I can tighten up any further or just stay at 2400 and tighten from there?


Hi Jam0r,

Thanks for sharing! . Xmp is a great starting point.
best is to revert to xmp without change to anything.
Set cpu at stock and cache also.
reboot and go to bios.
Write down the timings your system has set.
First timings are keyed in by the xmp profile.
but take note of timings that are set by auto rules.
Do this for secondary and tertiary timings.
Keep these notes aside.
Also wrote down the Volts that have been set by the auto rule.
Have you already figured out which volts are envolved in keeping the dram alive?

After taking note of these values, boot into windows . Run Aida CacheMem. Note /screenshot the scores. This is your baseline. Now you are ready to start tweaking.
First go to the bios and key in the volts important for the dram.

cheat sheet:
► Show Spoiler

save and exit. Reboot into Windows and run Aida and some other bench test like XTU or Hwbot Prime, if there are no errors than the voltages that you have set are not causing problems.

Reboot, go to the BIOS and change the Command Rate at 1T. Save and exit. Does system post and boot into Windows? If so run AIDA CacheMem and screenshot. Any differences ? The only cause is that single change.
no errors?
Reboot and go back to bios.
Lower Timing tRAS by 1.
save and exit. Reboot.
Does system post and boot into Windows?
Run Aida CacheMem
etc
etc
if you get boot problems check the q-code poster on motherboard and check your manual.
If you get Bluescreen check the bsod code.

Post your improvements and/or questions
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #21 by Arne Saknussemm » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:33 pm

I'd try and stay at 2400 and tighten. Try for 9-11-11-24 something like that...

Depends what you want to do....run 24/7 with tighter timings or work out tweaks for putting a bit of higher voltage through the ram for short benching sessions. Short OCing RAM wont heat up much even at quite high volts...1.7...1.75v.

For secondary timings try and get tRRD, tRTP and tWTR down to 4 and tFAW to 16...tWR down to 12 or down to 9

maybe try to get tRFC down...try... to 183 or 114 or 96

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #22 by Menthol » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:39 am

Arne,
My PC is running super with your timings, thanks so much

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #23 by Jam0r » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:29 am

Perfect thanks for that guys.

With regards to the secondary timings, do they come down in steps or one at a time?

tRFC seems to come down in steps from what I can see but not sure what the correct steps are?
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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #24 by Arne Saknussemm » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:18 am

Menthol wrote:Arne,
My PC is running super with your timings, thanks so much


Menthol! that's great....you're very welcome :D

Jam0r wrote:With regards to the secondary timings, do they come down in steps or one at a time?

tRFC seems to come down in steps from what I can see but not sure what the correct steps are?


If there are formulas for this stuff I'm not sure what they are...wish I did... just have to do lots of trial and error here :?

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Re: Dram tuning Show Your Aida Cache Setting

Post #25 by whyscotty » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:20 am

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